BILD:
What … for you? You are the youngest Prime Minister … in Greece, you are a football Champion of Europe and now the Olympic Games of Athens. Good choice. Do you have any special relations to the Gods?
PRIME MINISTER:
Not personally, but it is particularly because of the Games, a very important moment in … developments for reasons which are self-explanatory.
First of all it is a major international event. I would say it is the greatest celebration in the world every four years in culture and sports. And in our case there is a particularity that the Games come back to their place of origin. So, it’s a special atmosphere, a special spirit to it. And too, because this is the golden opportunity for Greece to present itself, to present it’s modern face to the outside world. I mean everybody knows Greece, but usually thinking outside Greece referred to Ancient Greece and sculptures, monuments, it’s contribution to philosophy, theatre, e.t.c, but the acquaintance of modern Greece for the greater world public can be achieved particularly in this period.
BILD:
What kind of country are you presenting to the world?
PRIME MINISTER:
A modern country which has self confidence, which undertook a major challenge and succeeded in performing a lot – I mean about the Games – and three, a country which is aspiring, being a competitive, producing with high living standards European part at the heart of Europe.
BILD:
What can the world learn from Greece?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, I don’t want to sound nationalistic but I would say that through the Games we can send the message of the reintegration of the basic spiritual assumptions having to do with the Games. That is moderation, fair competition, truce and through it world peace e.t.c.
So, and there is also one dimension, which cannot be easily described to words. I think that the best answer would be given by the Marathon athletes who ran the original distance; or the people who will compete in the stadium of Ancient Olympia itself; or even the ones, who will compete under the shadow of Acropolis. So, if you put all of that together I think you use a very strong message the world … to be addressed.
BILD:
These are the first Games since the terror attack of 9/11. Do we have to be afraid that it will be a Games of fear?
PRIME MINISTER:
I don’t believe that. It is true that because of the international developments, the ones you mention and others, there is throughout the last years a rising concern in regard to security, which up to a certain extend it is normal, it is logical. That is why we have undertaken a major effort in fans, in efforted energy, in professional dealing with the subject to address on the maximum humanly possible level these questions. And the result is that we have come to spend four times what was spent in Sydney only four years ago in security, logically, in terms of specific systems. And of course in this effort we have asked both on a bilateral level and also on an alliance level, NATO officially, systems of all partners and allies have been given to us. So, to make a long story short, we feel pretty secure that we have done everything possible to have not only success but also security.
BILD:
Heathrow?
PRIME MINISTER:
He is really, he is one of the seven governments, which is directly involved like the U.S., U.K., Germany, France and others in a Committee, which has been working with us all these years in preparing all the requirements for the security.
BILD:
But nevertheless, are you personally afraid maybe the text of the Games?
PRIME MINISTER:
I am afraid of anything and I don’t have any sign to voice concern. What I understand is that as a Greek citizen and particularly these last months as the Greek Prime Minister we’ve got to and we’ve done everything possible to address these concerns.
BILD:
Before the Olympic Games there has been a lot of critics on the preparations in Greece and in Athens. What do you say three days before the Games start in all your critics?
PRIME MINISTER:
I want to be frank with you. There were some delays, in the beginning particularly seven years ago, but on the other hand I think that particularly in the last months or so as we were coming closer to the Games there was an exaggeration, negative approaches. So, I think that let us follow the middle line. We are open to critic. I am not saying that we did all these years perfect. But nonetheless, I think there was a tremendous effort by all the governments, our predecessors most of all and all the people who were involved in this great effort. So, as a few days before the Games I feel secure that things are running well and this is also the message, the response we get by all the international actors, factors and media. I mean it’s not for me to answer. The President of the I.R.C. has made it very clear that he is the most responsible voice in dealing with that having been part of sixteen successive Olympic Games.
BILD:
Two point five (2,5) more million Germans visit your country every year. So, why do Germans love Greece so much?
PRIME MINISTER:
Good question there. Well…
BILD:
We’ve got sometimes the impression if you go to any German little village there are more Greek restaurants than German.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, I think that there are many factors involved beginning with history, tradition, and geographical factors. We are partners in the European Union, so there are very strong links between the two peoples. There is a major Greek Community in Germany, as you know throughout the last, almost, half century, which is also operating as a bridge of friendship and mutual acquaintance. But above all I think that Greece is a country, which has to offer not only physical beauties but also adverse cultural expectations; which the German people, as much as I am aware of at least honor, because of the education system in your country, particularly the traditional educational system was really strong in creating this expectations. I mean acquaintance with Ancient Greek, with Greek history e.t.c.
BILD:
As the German football coach Otto Rechagel the image of Germans in Greece?
PRIME MINISTER:
I am very fond of Otto and I also admire the job he has done. But I would say that the good feelings about Germans or Germany and the Germans pre-existed Otto. He, I think, he sees it is good feeling. He turned also to the direction because it is good about his job.
BILD:
Mr. Prime Minister let’s change the subject to the European Union. The possible membership to the European Union with concern the Union’s next weeks. There is not topic that is more important. You know the country very well because you are the neighbor. Do you think that Turkey with its big influence of Islam does fit to Europe at all?
PRIME MINISTER:
I think that the spirit of Europe has not so much to do with religions, or dogmas. I think that the spirit of Europe essentially is based upon certain principles, which pervade all religions on the non-fanatic side; … mutual acceptance, equality of human beings, respect for human personalities, respect for human rights and minority rights. Democracy. So, I wouldn’t make any dividing lines on geographical or geopolitical terms. I would say that people who respect these principles, who live by these principles are entitled to try to be part of the European Union. Besides, I would say that Turkey often with an up and down going atmosphere has to do with Europe on more than six hundred centuries. So, it is part of a broader European context in my understanding. Now, of course whether it fulfills or not the criteria, that’s something, which has to be evaluated by the Union and of course essentially it has to be addressed by Turkey itself. I mean we will be very simple on that. I would like to see a European Turkey, but eventually it’s for Turkey to decide if it wants to be European, if it wants to Europeanize itself. I think that the present government is doing a very good effort in this direction. But I am not saying that there are not still difficulties to be overcome.
BILD:
You just said Europe has got nothing to do with religion. You yourself have insisted to mention the Christian God in the new Constitution of the E.U. Is that not a contradiction?
PRIME MINISTER:
Not at all. You see the European Union is the outcome of a long historical process, in which certain factors have played a predominant role. For example Greek philosophy, the Roman legal system in principle of state organization and of course Christianity with it’s many good influences, but also in some cases also some pretty hard choices it had to make. It is part of a … But eventually in the modern Europe I think that people of different beliefs do fit in.
BILD:
Where do you see Europe’s borders? When even Turkey is integrated in the E.U. where is the possible … where you say this is the border?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, I am not sure we can talk about geographical borders but let me put in a very general way. I don’t want to think that to the East of Turkey there is still, room for new partners in the European Union.
BILD:
O.K., does Turkey already fulfill the demands for membership in your judgment?
PRIME MINISTER:
What I believe is that they have done a good effort on all levels, there has been a strong policy making the necessary reforms, there is still way to be covered. The eventual evaluation will be as you know in the coming months, but nonetheless it has to take into consideration that particularly under the Erdogan government there has been a major, … esteem, sincere effort to gather these requirements.
BILD:
That mostly are … announcement or are there already effects?
PRIME MINISTER:
They are applied policy. Now, between a policy, between legislation and the everyday practical application of it by all instruments, organs of the state there is usually distance. So, I am not prepared to say that everything is today running smoothly as in a conventional member of the European Union, but there has been a very great effort particularly in the last years.
BILD:
If Turkey would not be accepted by the E.U. what would that mean for the country? And for the whole region?
PRIME MINISTER:
For Turkey?
BILD:
Yes.
PRIME MINISTER:
Let me try to address it in a positive manner, not describe possible negative developments. I think that a Europeanized Turkey – and please do notice the terms I use – a Europeanized Turkey, which means that they also have assimilated and absorbed the necessity to Europeanize it. It’s not only an official or a typical decision, which means in another way that Turkey is transforming and has to transform itself to Europeanize itself. I think that such a development which is in my understanding very strongly an expectation if they keep up the good job they have been doing the last years is to the benefit of all, above all, the Turkish people themselves, but also, it’s neighbors and Europe itself.
BILD:
But what will happen if there is a negative decision? How would you foresee a negative impact on policy? No, what is the threat to Europe if we say no, to the integration of Turkey?
PRIME MINISTER:
I don’t think there is a threat.
BILD:
Will there be a message to all Islamic countries that there is no chance of democratic..?
PRIME MINISTER:
That’s one of the possible outcomes. First of all I would like to say that I don’t think we will have a negative outturn. But I think that Europe will have missed the chance to send the message not only to Turkey, but throughout the world. Now, this does not imply that one should be very flexible in interpreting the criteria. That’s another thing. The message of reform and transformation has to be steady. But no matter what I think the door has to be left opened to a European perspective.
BILD:
So, how do you see the time schedule to the integration of Europe?
PRIME MINISTER:
You mean of Turkey? Or, in general?
BILD:
Of Turkey, yes.
PRIME MINISTER:
I won’t comment on that. What I am saying is that the right policy in my understanding is to support Turkey’s European perspective. And above all, timetables have to do with the performance of the country itself.
BILD:
Regarding the E.U. membership of Turkey do you see any risks for Europe? For example there is a fear in Germany that – among many German workers – that with Turkey becoming an E.U. member there will be coming millions and millions of workers flooding into the Western countries of Europe.
PRIME MINISTER:
As you know practical policy questions can’t be dealt with interim periods, with derogations, e.t.c. e.t.c. But let me tell you something. On any major decision there will be, not only on Turkey, there will be counteractives, usually based on similar practical questions. I am not against in dealing with it, but major decisions have to be taken with major political criteria. So, it is what you mentioned, a parameter to be addressed. And I am sure that when we come down to a decision of accession of Turkey, of the fulfillment of negotiations, which at least all the … involved not foresaw are very foreseeable in the future. So, it will be legitimate to address such as that. On the other hand the major question is, do we see a European perspective or not? And I am taking clear sides on that.
BILD:
You are a strong supporter of European membership of Turkey. What do you tell your conduct of two friends in Europe, like Angela Lamachert the Head of C.V.U. opposition in Germany; who strongly opposes the E.U. membership of Turkey because of the Islamic background C.F.S., has had conflicts. What do you tell?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, let me tell you something. We agree that the great majority of questions with friends, like Angela and Margaret Barrows, we are as you know very close with the … throughout the years, but that doesn’t mean that we identify on all positions. So, this is one of the subjects of debate we have not only on the European level at large, but we feel that it … in the European … as well. You know the European spirit. The European spirit means that everybody has the opportunity to present his arguments and there is a strong dialogue and discussion. A fermentation of ideas if you want and usually we reach a conclusion, which takes into consideration the arguments of all. This is the way Europe works. So, I think that we are in the process of this dialogue and I think that in time more and more people, we see benefits of a European perspective … and we come closer and closer to the E.U. I respect all attitudes and I hope that we will find the right policy line in common.
BILD:
So, you are trying to convince her?
PRIME MINISTER:
I am trying to put across my arguments. I am not trying to convince Angela personally, for whom I have a great respect and we have a very good relationship as you know.
BILD:
You call her Angela?
PRIME MINISTER:
Yes. This is another issue.
BILD:
Costas and Angela.
PRIME MINISTER:
Yes, the European peoples party mentality. This is how we call each other.
BILD:
We remember that in the past relations between Greece and Turkey were quite difficult. What has changed …? Even in the NATO alliance there were sometimes…
PRIME MINISTER:
It’s true. There’s no secret that through history Greece and Turkey had quite some periods of conflict or tension even the last thirty years there have been major questions. Particularly as you know the Cyprus question, which was a very charged issue which unfortunately is still lingering. But on the other hand I think that on both sides there has been maturing a realization that we’ve got to find ways to live together. Even today there are problems with Turkey. I am not saying that on a political level everything is addressed. Not at all. Not at all. We have to give you one very strong example of a bilateral problem, continental … over there, the diminishing of the continental … in the Aegean. Major question. But on the other hand, do we behave as neighbors, which live together, which can find a modus vivendi and try to deal with existing problems in a manner of civilized neighbors. Now, I think, to give you another dimension to that, for Turkey to have a European perspective it is a very strong incentive to assimilate, to adopt also, standards of behavior in international or foreign relations, which are more European. I mean I wish to see whatever problems may arise between two neighbors, because between two neighbors there are everyday problems, which may arise to be dealt as for example between France and Germany. History has been very, very charged between centuries from … centuries but the last fifteen or so years we have an exemplary way of not only modus vivendi, but of very close cooperation.
BILD:
Two weeks ago we were in Ankara and talked to Prime Minister Erdogan and we learned that you have been best man to the Married Office eldest daughter. How did this personal relationship to Mr. Erdogan start? It is very personal.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, I think that we got along together from the very first meetings we had. And I think that to this direction helped both the fact that we speak frankly and openly. Erdogan in also a representative of a younger generation of politicians, particularly in Turkey, where as you know he deep state or non-exactly democratic, political party still had serious influence in political developments. So, I think that all the parameters in developing a personal good relationship where there. Now, that helps, but it doesn’t mean necessarily that it addresses also the political question. So, it is an additional positive side of the whole picture. On the other hand that doesn’t mean that … has not to still try to perform in order to really Europeanize itself.
BILD:
In Europe many politicians mistrust the Turkish Prime Minister because of his former Islamistic activities. You are the Prime Minister in Europe who knows him personally best. Is this suspicion justified or does he have overcome his Islamistic burst?
PRIME MINISTER:
I don’t believe that. I think he is a moderate person in his views and I respect very much his religious beliefs. I am a Christian Orthodox, a practicing Christian Orthodox. I know many of my partners in Europe who are devoted Catholics for example, or … comes to my mind, or Baroche is now the President of the Commission. So, I don’t thing that this subtracts of the personality of some politician or makes him more suspicious. Now, your question implies hints to possible trends of fanaticism, I haven’t … that.
BILD:
So, you think he is … on his political…
PRIME MINISTER:
And I wouldn’t by any means mix up or confuse somebody or anybody who is practicing religion in Islamic terms with any kinds of fanaticism of fundamentalism. At a final analysis such voices can be seen from all religions.
BILD:
So you think he is serious in his political will of opening his country towards Europe?
PRIME MINISTER:
Yes, I think he is serious and honest in this direction. And I think also that he has a very strong conviction and interest to overcome the reactionary forces between his country. Now, you may find here a paradox. For example the military has been seen in Turkey as the factor, which guaranteed Turkey’s Western orientation throughout the last fifty, sixty or so years. But on the other hand, it is and was the factor, which impeded Turkish development with true democracy. And now you have a leader or if you want a political movement of moderate Islamic use to be the champion of democracy in Europe within the country.
BILD:
In difference to other European countries you are surrounded by neighbors, which are Muslims and Islamic people. What is the biggest mistake the Western orientated world can do in dealing with these countries?
PRIME MINISTER:
Let me be very, very frank with you. I don’t believe that any of the problems in the wider region stem out of the fact that there are people, in some case majorities or minorities, whatever, of Islamic beliefs. I think the problem of Southeastern Europe or the Balkan area if you want has more to do with their very injurious political past, the period of totalitarianism, the hardships left behind, the social undressed, the very low standards of living and the difficulty the great challenge to stabilize political institutions, democratic political institutions and open market economy and to gradually at least put aside voices which echo the nationalistic past. So, I think that there is a road to peace, stability and prosperity for all Balkan peoples involved and I think that Greece has a major role to play there. It is an effort which has been already, is already on the way. Europe is also trying to be held from this direction. I think that all of us have to try a little more, to put it mildly.
BILD:
When are you coming to see Germany?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, at this very moment we don’t have an official schedule but you know that both on a state level, relations are very … close.
BILD:
There are no bilateral problems between you.
PRIME MINISTER:
We don’t have any bilateral problems. I have an upbringing, which because of my knowledge of German, the German language since my very, very early childhood makes me somewhat closer to the German culture and mentality so…
SHORT DIALOGUE IN GERMAN
PRIME MINISTER:
Anyway I think that we have very close relations and we can be not only helpful both of us to the European future, but be at the forefront of the future of the European Union. If I may say something I believe and I support the enlargements and as we already talked about I support even further enlargements, even for future members which do create some reservations in … of our countries and to an extend to your country. But on the other hand, as more as Europe enlarges, as stronger the necessity of a … within Europe. Which means that twenty-five or twenty-eight, or tomorrow thirty countries cannot move with the same pace ahead. And I think that German, Greece and others of course, have to be within this European …
BILD:
Thank you very much. I think we need some more pictures.
PRIME MINISTER:
Sure.